{"id":231030,"date":"2024-05-16T14:54:29","date_gmt":"2024-05-16T14:54:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/dominiclevent.com\/blog\/?p=231030"},"modified":"2024-05-16T14:54:29","modified_gmt":"2024-05-16T14:54:29","slug":"human-rights-lawyer-susie-alegre-if-ai-is-so-complex-it-cant-be-explained-there-are-areas-where","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/dominiclevent.com\/blog\/human-rights-lawyer-susie-alegre-if-ai-is-so-complex-it-cant-be-explained-there-are-areas-where\/","title":{"rendered":"Human rights lawyer Susie Alegre: \u2018If AI is so complex it can\u2019t be explained, there are areas where &#8230;"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<div>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><a href=\"https:\/\/susiealegre.com\/\" data-link-name=\"in body link\">Susie Alegre<\/a> is an international human rights lawyer and author, originally from the Isle of Man, whose focus in recent years has been on technology and its impact on human rights. As a legal expert she has advised Amnesty International, the UN and other organisations on issues such as counter-terrorism and anti-corruption. Her first book, <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/books\/2022\/mar\/31\/freedom-to-think-by-susie-alegre-review-the-big-tech-threat-to-free-thought\" data-link-name=\"in body link\">Freedom to Think<\/a><\/em>, published in 2022 and shortlisted for the <a href=\"https:\/\/rsliterature.org\/rsl-christopher-bland-prize\/\" data-link-name=\"in body link\">Christopher Bland prize<\/a>, looked at the history of legal freedoms around thought. In her new book <em>Human Rights, Robot Wrongs<\/em>, she turns her attention to the ways in which AI threatens our rights in areas such as war, sex and creativity \u2013 and what we might do to fight back.<\/p>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>What prompted you to write this book?<br \/>\n<\/strong>There were two triggers. One was the sudden explosion of ChatGPT and the narrative about how everyone can be a novelist now and there\u2019s going to be no need for human creators, because AI will be able to do it all for us. It felt utterly depressing. The second was the story about a Belgian man who took his own life after a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.thetimes.co.uk\/article\/ai-chatbot-blamed-for-belgian-mans-suicide-zcjzlztcc#:~:text=A%20young%20father%20took%20his,apparently%20encouraging%20him%20towards%20suicide.\" data-link-name=\"in body link\">six-week intensive relationship with an AI chatbot<\/a>. His widow felt that, without this relationship, which distorted his worldview, he would have still been there for her and for his children. That triggered me to think \u2013 well, this is absolutely about the right to life; to family life, to freedom of thought and freedom from manipulation. And how <em>are<\/em> we thinking about AI and the really severe ways that it\u2019s impacting our human rights?<\/p>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>You don\u2019t give much credence to the threat of an AI apocalypse.<br \/>\n<\/strong>I think that\u2019s a distraction. What we need to be worried about is putting limits on how AI can be developed, sold and used by people. And ultimately, there are people behind the technology, in the design phase and particularly in the marketing, and also in the choices that are being made about how it\u2019s used.<\/p>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>Everything we\u2019re hearing about AI suggests that it\u2019s advancing at incredible speed, <\/strong><strong>and that the models operate at levels of complexity that even their creators can\u2019t grasp. How can regulators ever hope to keep up?<br \/>\n<\/strong>I think there\u2019s an awful lot of smoke and mirrors. It\u2019s like in <em>The Wizard of Oz<\/em>, when Toto pulls back the curtain and we see what\u2019s going on behind. So we don\u2019t need to believe that it\u2019s all inevitable and omnipotent. We can still make choices and ask questions. Also, if something is so complex that it can\u2019t be explained, then there are certain areas where it shouldn\u2019t be used.<\/p>\n<aside class=\"dcr-dr95r8\">\n<blockquote class=\"dcr-zzndwp\"><p>Private-sector technology is being inserted into people\u2019s lives to replace human relationships, and that is very dangerous<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/aside>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>Do you think the existing legal systems and human rights charters are up to the task of dealing with AI, or do we need to create a <\/strong><strong>new framework?<br \/>\n<\/strong>I don\u2019t think we need a new framework, but what we really need is access to justice. There may well be certain legal avenues that need to be developed. But one of the really fundamental challenges is, how do you push back? How do you enforce regulation? And that\u2019s what we\u2019ve seen in relation to some big tech companies: their activities are found to be unlawful, they\u2019re issued with huge fines, and they still carry on.<\/p>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>You have a very interesting chapter on sex robots and chatbots. What are the main concerns?<br \/>\n<\/strong>This was a whole area that I hadn\u2019t really thought about before and I was quite horrified to realise how widespread the use of AI bots to replace human companionship is. The reason it worried me is because this is private-sector technology that\u2019s being inserted into people\u2019s lives to replace human relationships, and that is very dangerous in terms of social control. It\u2019s not a question of morality but rather, what does this mean for human society and our ability to cooperate and connect?<\/p>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>Isn\u2019t AI good news for people who can\u2019t afford legal representation?<br \/>\n<\/strong>It depends. If you\u2019re talking about very basic disputes where it\u2019s just about knowing the rules, technology can improve access. But when you\u2019re looking at more complex questions, the problem is that generative AI doesn\u2019t actually know what the law is and it could well be giving you a load of old rubbish \u2013 and when something is delivered by a machine in an authoritative tone, it\u2019s very hard for people to doubt it.<\/p>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>What happened when you asked ChatGPT: \u201cWho is Susie Alegre?\u201d<\/strong><strong><br \/>\n<\/strong>It said Susie Alegre didn\u2019t exist, or at least didn\u2019t appear on the internet. I felt a bit cheesed off, given that my first book had come out a year earlier. I asked it, who wrote <em>Freedom to Think<\/em>, and the first person it came up with was a male biologist. I asked it again and again and it came up with 20 different names, all of them men except for one. It was as if, for <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/technology\/chatgpt\" data-link-name=\"in body link\" data-component=\"auto-linked-tag\">ChatGPT<\/a>, the idea that a woman would have written a book about thought was absolutely unthinkable.<\/p>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>What\u2019s your opinion on the \u201cfair use\u201d defence that chatbot companies are using to defend hoovering up words and images to feed their AI?<br \/>\n<\/strong>I\u2019m not an American copyright lawyer so I don\u2019t really have expertise on that, but I think it\u2019s going to be very interesting to see how cases pan out in different jurisdictions. The US has a very different approach to almost anywhere in the world on questions of freedom of expression and how that\u2019s been used to support developments in the tech industry. Regardless of the legality of the \u201cfair use\u201d defence, it raises enormous questions for the future of human creativity, journalism and the information space. And underlying that is the basic problem of the massive decrease in pay for creators \u2013 the general trajectory has been towards depriving creators of economic incentives.<\/p>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>If everything you propose in the book in terms of regulation came to pass, isn\u2019t there a danger that it would stifle innovation?<br \/>\n<\/strong>That is a bit of a straw man, the idea that regulation stifles innovation. What regulation does is make innovation develop in a certain direction and shut off directions that would be extremely harmful. In fact, I think there is the opposite risk, that if you allow AI to dominate in ways that undermine our ability to think for ourselves, to claim back our attention, we will lose the capacity to innovate.<\/p>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>You point out that AI isn\u2019t just some benign cloud floating above our heads. It\u2019s based on material extraction and the exploitation of workers, mainly<\/strong><strong> in the <\/strong><strong>global <\/strong><strong>south, and it\u2019s incredibly polluting to run<\/strong><strong>. But so much of this is hidden from view. How do we go about tackling these impacts?<br \/>\n<\/strong>It is a huge question. One way of dealing with it is by looking at the question of AI adoption from an ESG [environmental, social and governance] perspective. All of the equipment that we use, the phones that we\u2019re talking on now, are built from minerals often taken from conflict regions, including with child labour. Being aware of that hopefully can help shift societal demands and consumer habits. You can use generative AI to make a hilarious meme, but how much water and energy are you expending? Couldn\u2019t you just pick up a pencil, and might that actually be more satisfying?<\/p>\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><strong>Do you sometimes wish that AI could be put back on the shelf?<br \/>\n<\/strong>It\u2019s not an all-or-nothing equation between banning AI or embracing it into every aspect of your life. It\u2019s a question of choosing what we want to use AI for. Being critical and asking questions doesn\u2019t mean that you\u2019re against AI: it just means you\u2019re against AI hype.<\/p>\n<ul class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\">\n<li class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\">\n<p class=\"dcr-iy9ec7\"><em>Human Rights, Robot Wrongs<\/em> by Susie Alegre is published by Atlantic Books (\u00a312.99). To support the <em>Guardian<\/em> and <em>Observer<\/em> order your copy at <a href=\"https:\/\/guardianbookshop.com\/Human-Rights-Robot-Wrongs-9781805461296\" data-link-name=\"in body link\">guardianbookshop.com<\/a>. Delivery charges may apply<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/technology\/article\/2024\/may\/11\/human-rights-lawyer-susie-alegre-ai-artificial-intelligence-human-rights-robot-wrongs-book-interview\">Source link <\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.dominiclevent.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-19471\" src=\"https:\/\/dominiclevent.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/litigation-300x225.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"400\" height=\"350\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><center><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/maps\/d\/u\/1\/embed?mid=1w4tN9mf5kVdBXUXTq2KvwE23NmpUzEna\" width=\"640\" height=\"480\"><\/iframe><\/center>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><center><iframe loading=\"lazy\" style=\"border: 0px #ffffff none;\" src=\"https:\/\/calendar.google.com\/calendar\/embed?src=sc635csnrm8h9s9lq0cad6vkss@group.calendar.google.com\" name=\"myiFrame\" width=\"600px\" height=\"3px\" frameborder=\"1\" marginwidth=\"0px\" marginheight=\"0px\" scrolling=\"no\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/center>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><center><\/center><\/p>\n<div>\n<div><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/www.dominiclevent.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/06\/Business_Solicitors_London.jpg\" width=\"600\" \/><\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div>Dominic Levent Solicitors<\/div>\n<div>Email: Enquiries@dominiclevent.com<\/div>\n<div>Phone: 020 8347 6640<\/div>\n<div>Url: https:\/\/www.dominiclevent.com<\/div>\n<div style=\"display: none;\">cash, check, credit card, invoice<\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>\n<div>1345 High Rd<\/div>\n<div>London, London N20 9HR<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Susie Alegre is an international human rights lawyer and author, originally from the Isle of Man, whose focus in recent years has been on technology and its impact on human rights. As a legal expert she has advised Amnesty International, the UN and other organisations on issues such as counter-terrorism and anti-corruption. Her first book, &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"https:\/\/dominiclevent.com\/blog\/human-rights-lawyer-susie-alegre-if-ai-is-so-complex-it-cant-be-explained-there-are-areas-where\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;Human rights lawyer Susie Alegre: \u2018If AI is so complex it can\u2019t be explained, there are areas where &#8230;&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":231031,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-231030","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-news1","entry"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Human rights lawyer Susie Alegre: \u2018If AI is so complex it can\u2019t be explained, there are areas where ... - Dominic Levent Solicitors Blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/dominiclevent.com\/blog\/human-rights-lawyer-susie-alegre-if-ai-is-so-complex-it-cant-be-explained-there-are-areas-where\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Human rights lawyer Susie Alegre: \u2018If AI is so complex it can\u2019t be explained, there are areas where ... - Dominic Levent Solicitors Blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Susie Alegre is an international human rights lawyer and author, originally from the Isle of Man, whose focus in recent years has been on technology and its impact on human rights. 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